communism is dead and the usa is a strongly christian, tolarant, democratic nation, it just won't happen here.
muslim nations are fanatical about their dedication....no chance.
it's silly to think of religions as a whole being banned....this is just a witness bad dream, never happen in a million years..
Agreed. Politics and religion are partners. I find it amusing that in the USA in the 21st century, you cannot get elected to state or national office unless you profess some sort of religious belief.
The fact that I don't believe in talking snakes, talking donkeys, and a guy living in a whale for 3 days disqualifies me from holding public office in this country.
i have had an ongoing discussion with a friend on the validity of 1914, as well as the chronology leading to it...i roundly refuted the wt drivel quoted and got this response....notice the changing of topics...as well as admission he can not refute.... .
i am so sorry that i have used the wrong term when talking about the scriptures in num.
and eze.
The JW response is not surprising. There are so many holes in the JW "Gentile Times" theology, that it's hard to pick one to start with.
To me, the issue of 607 vs. 587 is of secondary importance. Even if 607 was correct (which it isn't), why does there need to be a second fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy? If there's a second fulfillment, why can't there be a third, fourth, etc.? It makes no sense. Rather, it shows a sort of generational narcissism--that everything in the Bible has to be about ME or MY generation.
And the discussion of the image in Neb's dream also exposes weaknesses in JW theology. For example, the Witnesses teach that the legs of iron represent Rome and that the feet represent the "Anglo-American" world power. So the Witnesses would have us believe that the Roman world power was still in place during the middle ages? What about Genghis Khan? His empire was larger than any of these other world powers. And later, what about the Ottoman empire?
Honestly, that idea of 7 world powers is a total sham...the JWs remind me of Nostradomas followers who try desperately to shoehorn historical events into his prophecies. It's pathetic.
*sorry for the near triple post.
i figured i'm going to have to break it down so everyone can see.*.
point #1. we are like children playing outside innocently whose mother freaks out once she sees that the ignorant child finds a snake and starts playing with it.
well the convention was extremely long and boring but i decided to take specific notes on brother morris's talks for discussion here on jwd (and i was also able to get a few extra copies of the creation dvd so if anyone wants one, pm me).. overall, the brother is not a great orator and sometimes awkwardly raises his voice.
i am aware that some of the friends were a little disappointed to say the least that we did not get a more "famous" gb brother at the first international convention, but he speaks for the gb, so same difference.. it felt like most of his talks were around a.
) countering criticism about jws and b.
Thanks for the recap...sorry you had to sit through that nonsense.
the power of faith (latest blog o' mine).
there is a big difference between looking at a picture of the empire state building and actually visiting it.
to have a friend tell you that it is great, that it is amazaing, awe inspiring and grand won't do it justice until you see it for yourself.. in a similar way, there is a big difference between having a healthy faith, and being told to have a healthy faith.. many who used to be jw's, as well as a fair number of christians, spend a lot of time on ex jw boards, looking to promote a simple thought.
Nice post, Jeff.
I'm of the opinion that faith is a mental disorder. Accepting ideas without proof is dangerous and should not be encouraged.
i often check this site and its been fine, now its gone.
i know the wt succeeded in shutting it down a few years back but it reinvented itself and reappeared.
have they succeeded again?
Still available here: http://qwotes.info/index.htm
honestly, i never believed in the chronology.
"no man knows the day or the hour" was pretty clear to me..
Sure. As a "born-in," I believed my parents when they told me that the generation that saw 1914 would not pass away until The End comes. So, until the generation change of 1995, I believed that The End would come in my lifetime.
After that, I wasn't quite so sure.
Now I know that I have one thing in common with all of the men and women who have lived before me--I'm going to die. The sooner we accept this fact, the better. I'll take facts, history, and statistics over the failed prophecies of nine self-appointed clergy in New York.
thats right - on this years memorial parfakers!!
the parfakers are going up like crazy after years of being flat lined at 8500 or so.. in a few days from now i'll post my guess for the parfakers.
then later on this year we can all have fun reviewing this thread.
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of course anyone not a jw is "worldly""...i think that mentally this is the hardest part to overcome if you are born in..... you should have seen the look on my wife's face recently when i told her that i feel that things are prob about as good as it gets.....no evil wicked system of things exists........ ya..... i know times are tough here in usa as far as employment.....but damm....this ain't like the great depression or wwi or ww2!!
!.......life in the middle ages used to be 38 years......now it is 88 years!!!.......
i can walk just about any neighborhood without fear...if the "world" were as bad as they say...there would be a prisons every 1000 meters!!!
Oompa--I agree with you 100%. Harvard professor Steven Pinker explains it very well in this speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk
The article on which the speech is based is available here: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html
If this is really The Last Days, then why don't we have pestilences like we used to? The Black Plague killed about 33% of all Europeans in the span of two years (see http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/plague/15.shtml). Compare that to today's "swine flu"--which thanks to modern medicine and hygiene has proven to be mostly hype (see, e.g., this article by a medical professor: http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/25/take-a-deep-breath-swine-flus-not-that-bad/).
Sure, there are some places in the world (e.g., some African nations) where things are really bad. But overall, the average lifespan of a human born today is roughly double what it was in 1914--and that is taking into account Africa as well. See, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy.
Also, think about the dramatic decrease in persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses over the past decades. During WW2, JWs around the world were persecuted terribly. But since then, governments in general have granted Witnesses more and more rights. Sure, there have been exceptions such as Malawi in the 1960s-70s and the country of Georgia in the 1990s-early 2000s, but this does not even approach the pervasive and consistent persecution of Witnesses 70 years ago. Doesn't come close. So, does it make sense that as we get "deeper into The Last Days" that persecution will dramatically decrease? Makes no sense.
even with my jw wife.....i have told her for awhile she is prob better off without me....i was party central in jwland....nobody has had me over for two years now....i guess cause i could not shut up about some real truths about the so-called truth....now i have agreed to shut up....these guys really do have a right to their own beliefs...i am very non-judgemental and always have been......i should have shut up two years ago or so...but damm......trying to fit in with your own marriage in order to save being shunned from your blood family and a very few what is left dub friends just sucks.....starting over at midlife is such a bitch.....such a bitch..........oompa.
and ya...the fear of the unknown is really present......if all i have known is jw...i will prob not fit into real world either.
I agree with Undercover. You have pointed out that you've lost most of your JW friends to one degree or another. It's time to move on (easier said than done, I know).
May I suggest getting involved with some activities that have nothing to do with religion. For example, identify a cause that you believe in--such as Habitat for Humanity or your local soup kitchen. Charities like that are great ways to meet people and forge new friendships. Plus helping other people is good for your emotional health. I don't want to get all "Dr. Phil" on you, but I think spending too much time focusing on yourself isn't healthy. Of course you need to spend some time on yourself, but it should be balanced.
And it's also important to have realistic expectations. You are going to meet some people "in the world" who are great folks; and you are going to meet some who are as judgmental and harsh as any JW. The good thing is that now you have a much larger pool of potential friends from which to draw (7 BILLION instead of 7 million).
Finally, cut your wife some slack. Imagine how you would have felt if she "went apostate" 7 years ago. You would have freaked out, right? For all you know, she may eventually come around. For some people, it takes a long time. It took decades for you! Heck, Ray Franz was in it until he was in his late 50s. As Guns n' Roses said: "all you need is just a little patience."
So, to sum it up: (1) be patient; (2) find a way to occupy yourself that involves helping others; (3) be patient.
Just my $0.02.
